Cancer Clear and Simple
Welcome to 'Cancer Clear and Simple,' the podcast dedicated to simplifying cancer. Join us as we discuss the world of cancer, breaking down complex concepts for our listening audience. One of our goals is to equip individuals and families dealing with cancer by providing clear, and concise insights. Through personal stories, expert interviews and practical tips, listeners are enabled to make informed decisions. Whether you're a patient, caregiver, or just simply wanting information, tune in to 'Cancer Clear and Simple' for a easy-to-follow guide on understanding and coping with cancer.
Cancer Clear and Simple
Dr. Christian Capitini │ Behind the Caregiver
Caregivers carry cancer care far beyond the hospital walls. We sit down with Dr. Christian Capitini, acting director of the UW Carbone Cancer Center, to explore the unseen work families do—learning medical language on the fly, managing beeping pumps at 2 a.m., navigating insurance snags, and keeping life moving for kids and adults facing treatment. Our conversation pulls back the curtain on what a comprehensive cancer center actually does across prevention, diagnosis, therapy, and survivorship—and why earning an “outstanding” federal rating changes what’s possible for patients.
We dig into a vivid example from pediatric leukemia: transforming a month-long, 24/7 infusion into a safe, portable pump program so kids can go to school and sleep in their own beds. That pivot required meticulous protocols, caregiver training, reliable equipment, and clear after-hours pathways. We also talk frankly about the barriers families face—long rural drives that turn an hour visit into a day lost, limited rideshare access, and the mental load that doesn’t fit into a standard appointment. The fix isn’t heroic individualism; it’s teams. Social workers, nurse navigators, and case managers become the scaffolding that keeps home care stable, and a simple question—“Are you okay?”—can change the course of a caregiver’s week.
On the science side, Dr. Capitini traces how immunotherapy moved from pipe dream to standard care, including a landmark neuroblastoma trial that boosted survival by 20% and helped draw him to Wisconsin. We highlight the translational engine at Carbone, where engineering, nursing, pharmacy, and the veterinary school collaborate on next-generation treatments like natural killer cell therapies tested in canine cancers to accelerate learning and inform human trials. Along the way, we touch on the healing power of well-timed humor and the importance of inviting the public to see research up close.
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In today's episode of Cancer Clear and Simple.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean the challenges of caregivers is sometimes even more than the providers at the hospitals because they do most of the care outside of the hospital. And they may not be medically savvy or experts in providing that care, and they're learning on the fly because often the caregivers are the forgotten heroes in all of this. They're in the room taking notes when the doctor's explaining this information that can be in a foreign language. They're at home trying to administer the medications with pills and needles. And then don't even get me started about navigating the insurance and you know all the bills that are coming in and trying to rectify that. So it's a it's a big complex job.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome everybody to another episode of Cancer Clear and Simple with the Carbone Cancer Center. I'm your host, Joshua Wright, and I have another wonderful guest for us today. We are here with the acting director of the Carbone Cancer Center, Dr. Christian Capatini. Welcome to the show today. Thanks for having me. So um just to kind of give an understanding of what goes into being the director of the Carbone Cancer Center, can you tell the people a little bit about your experience so far being how many months in?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I've just uh entered my tenth month in the role. Cancer centers are uh a really interesting entity. They were started after President Nixon passed the National Cancer Act in 1971 and established that cancer is such a big problem in the United States that we got to put federal funds toward it to concentrate all of the scientific and clinical expertise in the country into areas of excellence around the nation. And during that, they established cancer centers formally as a federally funded and backed institution. University of Wisconsin uh Carbone Cancer Center was fortunate to be one of the first six comprehensive cancer centers. Comprehensive means we not just do research in diagnosing and treating cancer, but we it go for the whole spectrum. So we're in charge of developing screening strategies, cancer prevention, and then also diagnosis and treatment and survivorship. So we see you before you get cancer, and then of course take care of you during it, and then we're in charge of you afterwards too. And all during that, we want to innovate. Now, to maintain that federal funding, the director leads an entire team of both researchers and clinical staff to provide that infrastructure so that we're always staying on the cutting edge. And I'm proud to say when we were last reviewed by the government in 2022, we received an outstanding score. An outstanding score is a very special distinction that we've never achieved before that allows us to be reviewed instead of every five years like everyone else, every seven years. And so this is the first time that uh we're getting this extended uh review. So I'm really excited to be part of that.
SPEAKER_01:So I appreciate your explanation of what a cancer center, a cop being a cancer comprehensive cancer center involves. Um, it's interesting trying to explain that in its entirety, but being able to know that we're being graded by the government on a very rigorous scale, um, and to know that the outstanding marker was achieved is quite the feat, and I'm glad that you're being able to enjoy seeing how that's unfolding. Um so we are here at the 23rd annual fall cancer conference. Today's theme is cancer caregiving, complexities, challenges, and choices. Can you share a little bit about something that has popped out or stood out in your uh understanding of this information?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean the challenges of caregivers is um at sometimes even more than the providers at the hospitals because they do most of the care outside of the hospital, and they may not be medically savvy or experts in providing that care and they're learning on the fly. I take care of children with cancer, and often as scary as that diagnosis starts, we see by the end of treatment that the parents uh are effectively healthcare professionals because we try and do so much of that care in the home, and it's also while being a parent to the child. And um, so I have a tremendous amount of respect for what this conference is trying to describe to the public, but also trying to get people in a room to figure out how do we make this easier as a society, because often the caregivers are the forgotten heroes in all of this. Um they're in the room taking notes when the doctor's explaining uh this information that can be in a foreign language. Um they're at home trying to administer the medications with pills and needles, um, and then don't even get me started about navigating the insurance and you know all the bills that are coming in and trying to rectify that. So it's a it's a big complex job.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Um you're taking me into uncharted territory, and I really appreciate that. Um, but the compounded effect of what caretaking has involved. Can you just um go into an example of where you might had to navigate guiding families through that particular situation?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure thing. Um again, going back to pediatric cancer, one of the treatments that we started offering was in childhood leukemia. It was in a type of immunotherapy that had to be administered 24-7 around the clock for a month. And you're connected to an IV during that whole time. Obviously, that's not something we want to keep you in the hospital. Um, and so we were able to convert that drug into a portable pump and the child can wear it as a backpack, but they still have to go to school and live life and carry this machine that's pumping this medication and around. And so the age of the child can vary widely, right? From like a toddler to a high schooler. And um, but we have to train the caregivers to be able to manage when the pump starts beeping or if the machine is not working right or something gets disconnected. They can't panic. They have to be able to know what to do in the moment, and sometimes even get them to the hospital and figure out who to call to do that if it's after hours. And so again, it's about giving families the tools to train them on the health-related issues, working with insurance to get make sure that these treatments are covered and making sure when things break, they can get equipment in a timely fashion and not have to worry about, you know, navigating that landscape, and also being able to communicate to nurse navigators and doctors about how it's going at home because this stuff, while highly effective, comes with side effects. And that's the the part that we rely on the caregiver the most is to manage those side effects.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm a little bit speechless because my mind is just reeling on all the intricate pieces that need to fit together in order to successfully navigate what it is that you just um talked about. And so um I just wanted to understand just a piece that might be very small of what you said, but you said it was developed here as well in order to be in a pump form that could be uh portable.
SPEAKER_00:Um the the it was all in-house that that was developed or No, the um the drug itself, you know, is from a company, but we had to develop our own uh standard standardized operating procedures on how we want children here uh to take care of this drug. Because while the drug's available, every center has their own workflows on who do you call again, like when you have issues, um, you know, what kind of uh home care agency are you gonna work with at your uh household that's gonna be able to have someone come to the house and help you? Um, and you know, what backpack is the kid gonna wear and things like that. Um, and so you have to customize that everywhere that this treatment is given. And a solution in one city may be different in another. People have different uh levels of access, and people have also um, you know, different types of providers supporting them. And so we had to build our own customized infrastructure for that.
SPEAKER_01:That's really cool. Um and just the ways that the caretaker is being provided for, um, the team of support that needs to be in place in order for them to have a successful go at thing um has really gotten uh a new life or a new light in what you were just able to explain to me. Wow. So what are some of the feelings that come up when you're thinking about caregiving and supporting somebody through cancer?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the most important thing that I always want to do is um while the goal of a visit is to of course center around the patient with cancer, you don't want to ignore the caregivers in the room. And again, pediatrics has sort of trained me to do that because um it's never just the child alone, right? They're living with siblings and parents and aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc. And um and they're they're impacted by cancer, even though they don't have cancer. And so you have to have a lens that you're thinking about not just biologically what's going on in the patient, but psychosocially what's happening around them. Because if you can set up the psychosocial to uh work in their favor and be optimized, the biological piece uh is much easier to deal with. Okay. On the flip side, if there's chaos in that household, there's you know a lot of emotions, feelings, barriers to care that the caregivers are dealing with, the patient suffers, even if their disease biologically is going well. So you have to look at it holistically.
SPEAKER_01:I want to ask so many more questions just based on that approach alone or just that perspective. Um, but I'm gonna stay focused on the caregiving side of things. Um what is something that you can share that you learned about caregiving that changed how you think about care or cancer care?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think there's a lot of lot of uh lessons I've learned. Um I think the hardest thing that I have to watch sometimes are seeing caregivers struggle with the system of medical care. Um as I said, it's it's very complex disease we're treating, very complex treatments, and that in and of itself requires a lot of energy and focus. But when things that are outside of our control are also complicating matters, like simple things like getting to the hospital or doctor, yeah, and not being able to uh either afford transportation or you can afford it, but you know, the cab or you know, rideshare company doesn't come to your neighborhood. Like that's that's a real problem. Also, too, where we're located in the state of Wisconsin, we're not exclusive to Wisconsin. We take care of patients in northern Illinois, um, in parts of Iowa and even Michigan. And um, they travel a long way to come here for complex tertiary and quaternary care. All those hours on the road to then, you know, come and then wait in the waiting room or like have appointments falling behind. It turns, you know, a simple one-hour appointment into an all-day trip. Um, and so again, that impacts the caregiver as much as the patient, and that you know, wears them out. So you have to, as a provider, you know, try and take care of that as much as you can. But I guess what I learned is like there's so many things out of our control that we need to approach as like a health system uh to make access easier for people.
SPEAKER_01:The interesting thought that came in my mind is how in those conversations does like the customer's perspective come in? Because I really was able to kind of, okay, I'm leaving the house and I have to get in this car to go to the facility. And you were able to just kind of lay that out for me. And I I started to get tired thinking about being on the road. Right. But who who walks through those perspectives with the doc?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's a great point. I think part of it is in our medical education training. Okay. We have trainers uh of medical students, residents, and fellows um as part of our faculty. And um, it's important that it's part of the training, you're not just teaching how to take care of the illness, but how to approach the illness. And part of the approach is talking with the caregivers and interviewing them. Are you okay? I know we just talked about the patient, but are you doing okay? How can we help? It's also to the hospital providing resources to the family and making sure that we have a care team, case managers, social workers, nurse navigators that can work with the family and make sure that when they come in the door, when they leave the door, everything's in place so that they can execute on the plan. And um, and that's something again that it's not natural to do because it's you know, you just have patients that you're just trying to get through a schedule, um, but you need help, and that's why we do this as a team, so that the care continues after the visit's over.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And so there have been instances, let's say, where um somebody's caretaker has come in with a cough, right? And you've had to be like, hey, we've addressed what the main patient needs. However, we need to address the caretaker and making sure that this isn't something that needs to be taken care of immediately, right? Right. So uh can you can you kind of give an example of of that that's happened?
SPEAKER_00:Well, absolutely. I mean, I've had um many parents come in that are, you know, have come down with something and um, you know, they're pretty worn out, they're missing work, but they made sure that they prioritize getting their kid to the appointment. Now, I can't prescribe anything to them because I'm not their doctor, but I can at least hear what's going on and make recommendations like, you know, we just got an emergency room downstairs if you want to come by and you know, we can have someone uh, you know, take you over there. Do you have other caregivers you can call, you know, to take care of your child if you decide to go home and go to an urgent care or something? Um, but oftentimes it's not examples like that. It's it's more uh the mental stress and burden of all of this that it's not built into the appointment, but they need attention too. So I have on as another example, I've said to people, you look like you haven't showered, you you look burned out. Are you taking time for yourself? Do you have anyone else that can relieve you? Um, do you need uh a phone number to a therapist that you can talk to? Like not being afraid to do that, I think is really important. So you can meet people where they are.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. I'm just imagining myself breaking down in tears. Like that that's happened in terms of you turning and addressing the caretaker where they they they've been able to like understand that they're being seen in that situation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it can be really emotional, especially like um someone acknowledging that that happened. I remember uh one family in particular, you know, dad was working all the time, and mom was like a hundred percent the caretaker. And um she just sort of opened up and said, you know, this has been a lot for me, and you know, I love my family, but you know, I've given it all I can. And just she didn't need anything in that moment, but I think just getting that out was a pretty emotional moment for both of us. And just me saying, you know, I I hear you, I see you, um, and you're gonna get through this, and just let me know if I can help was just all she needed. Um, and that's all people need is just like, you know, see and hear me. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and so from what you've heard in um some of the keynotes or some of the sessions today, um, have there been any changes or supports that you think you could made? Um I'm sorry. From what you've heard in sessions today, what changes or supports do you think you could could make the biggest difference for caregivers?
SPEAKER_00:Uh you know, the the keynote speaker, uh Jesus Trejol, um reminded us that humor has a role. Um, you know, it's a serious job, it's serious diseases like cancer. Um, but humor sometimes can help a lot. Um there are funny things that happen in caregiving, as as he gave, you know, really poignant examples that we can just laugh about, even though it's like pretty serious. Um, but sometimes in a room too, the stress can build up pretty high, especially if you're giving bad news. And not that that's a time to make a joke, but humor can provide an avenue to uh just kind of de-stress the moment, um, or sometimes to give good news too. Like, you know, it can it can be just as stressful just because you know that with all they've been fighting for, that you know, finally you can say, you know, after all that hard work it paid off, you're in remission. Um it can burst out in tears, you can make a joke, and just kind of again uh, you know, help the help everyone settle down. But I that was a good takeaway point for me, because I for I forget that. I I I love comedy, um, but you know, you kind of think of that as outside of work, but it has a role at in the workplace as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Um, so let's take a a turn just quickly. Um you said you like comedy. Um tell us a little bit about yourself and what your likes and interests are outside of being Dr. Capatini. Oh, geez.
SPEAKER_00:The uh before I took the job here uh 14 years ago, I spent some time uh, you know, doing some stand-up comedy. And uh I was living in the DC area, actually working uh at the NIH and um National Institutes of Health. National Institutes of Health at the National Cancer Institute to be specific. You know, that area of the country uh is very entrepreneurial for new comics. They have a lot of open mics around the city, not just in comedy clubs, but you know, in hotels, at charity events, etc. And um, you know, I had a pretty stressful job, and it was a way that um, you know, people said, you know, you're funny at work, you should, you know, give it a try. And um, and it ended up, you know, by talking about medical humor, um, you know, it was a kind of a unique area than other comics, and I was able to, you know, get some time to tell jokes. And um, it's again really powerful because um you're in a room of people that you know you've never met before, but it's a way to immediately connect. And there's very few other experiences that you can do to do that in such a brief amount of time. And now it's like um, you know, in this role as a at the Cancer Center, um, you know, not that I would institute comedy nights or anything like that, but um, I I again can see how in the right setting and the right time, uh humor can absolutely have a role in what we do because some of the things that are happening, there's no other way to react but to laugh, you know? Because it's so nonsensical. But sure. Um, I would love to um chew on the idea of doing comedy nights. Well, actually, okay, yeah, that's great. You could do like comedy and magic, you know, and like have a little variety night.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, uh that that gets me excited um to think about. Um so just in terms of like follow that up a little bit more. You were in Washington, D.C. Um, what what was the transition to Wisconsin and the carbon cancer study?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's great. Um so I did my uh fellowship training in in oncology um at Johns Hopkins and then at the National Cancer Institute. And I was dancing between the two institutions, one's in Baltimore, Maryland, one's in Bethesda, Maryland, putting lots of miles on the car. Okay. Uh driving between the two. But after the three-year fellowship training ended, I stayed on at the National Cancer Institute for an additional three years to do a deep dive in immunotherapy research. You know, now a lot of people are familiar with immunotherapy. There's a bunch of approved drugs. But back then, you know, 2010-2011, when I was wrapping up, there weren't that many. Um, and in fact, even then, uh people didn't really believe it would become standard of care. It was kind of this pipe dream in the laboratory, thought to be you know too complex uh to get into people. A study that was led by the University of Wisconsin in pediatric cancer really moved me. So Dr. Paul Sandell, who was at the time the head of uh pediatric hematology oncology, was leading a national phase three study in a disease called neuroblastoma. So this is a pretty uh rare cancer overall, but common in children. And um, in particular, this disease, half of the people who are diagnosed are stage four. And so the disease is spread in multiple areas and they get the kitchen sink. Anatomy point, neuroblastoma affects what part of the body? Yes. So um the neuros confusing because people think brain, but it's a disease of the neuron. So we have like nerves all over. Yeah. And specifically, it typically occurs in the abdomen on the adrenal gland. Uh the adrenal gland sits on your kidney and uh makes adrenaline, um, but can become cancerous. And unfortunately, when it does, you know, it can spread into multiple locations uh beyond the abdomen. It can go to bones and bone marrow and other nerves, etc. We we have decent outcomes with a very intense treatment that includes chemo, surgery, bone marrow transplants, and now we do them back to back, so twos, transplants, radiation therapy, and then at the time they were getting uh a derivative of vitamin A as a treatment. All of these things. All of these things, about a year and a half long. Okay, as intense as it gets. I don't know how patients and certainly caregivers get through it. What the trial that he was leading was asking is can immunotherapy improve that? And usually, you know, immunotherapy up to that point, and even a little bit now, is usually tested when you've exhausted all other options. The beauty of this trial was asking, can we add it at the end of therapy to clean up the disease that we can't detect and improve outcomes? And when I was in DC and saw the data that came out in a national publication, that his immunotherapy, which was the combination of an antibody against neuroblastoma and the stimulating agents that turn on the immune system, giving these all together at the end of treatment in the final cycles, improved survival by 20%. So it went from uh less than 50% of people, about 46% responding, to 66% with the immunotherapy treatment. It was so powerful that the FTA actually stopped the str the study midway and said, You gotta stop. You can't give the control group standard of care. Everyone needs immunotherapy. And I said, Wow, what's going on in Wisconsin? And so I applied for a job here and was lucky to get hired in 2011 the next year.
SPEAKER_01:Congratulations on that backstory being so successful. Um, but what also Go Badgers. Yes. Um and and again, just continuing to again lift up the work that's being done here, like to go from that point to now you're the guy, to be able to look and continue to bring up some of these thoughts that you've learned from along the way, right? No, you're right. And it's interesting to just think about what's that thing that's on the horizon as you described immunotherapy was back then.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, we have now as part of the cancer center um between 240 and 250 members that um, you know, they've dedicated their lives to fighting cancer, but the ideas and skills that they have need help. They can't do it alone. And we're much better as a team than alone. And so part of my role now and in this role is to help facilitate getting things to the finish line. How many ideas have we heard about on the news or online of like the next big thing for a given cancer? And it's like, whoa, that has a lot of promise. And then you fast forward like five years or even ten years, and you're like, whatever happened, I thought, you know, and it didn't pan out. A lot of ideas die in what's called the valley of death. And that's a term that the government, I don't know when they came out with it, but they said, like, we have trouble as a country taking new, exciting, developed ideas and getting them into FDA-approved drugs that patients can get. And the story that I saw with immunotherapy with Dr. Sandel and the team of investigators around the country, tested and led and got approved, showed me you can get it to the finish line, but it does take that tenacity. And so now being in this role, that's why I view I'm I am the facilitator in chief. Um my job is to hear what good research we have here and figure out what challenges people are having to take it to the next level and build an infrastructure to get them there. And so that's what I think we have here. It's just you know getting all the right people at the table.
SPEAKER_01:I like that answer. If you could share one message with someone just beginning their caregiver journey, what would you want them to know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the most important thing is that you're not alone. We're not just a you know a bunch of bricks uh with uh some smart people walking around. Um we are a comprehensive cancer center, again, in charge of taking care of you before you have cancer, if you have cancer, when you have cancer, and after you have cancer. And we're really um here to support you all along that journey and um want people to know that we are a resource. We're a public institution. The the doors are always open. I always invite people if you want to hear about all the exciting things we've talked about today. We give tours all the time. You can tour the research areas, you can tour the hospital too. And it doesn't have to be this foreign place, but it is in people's backyard. And so our responsibility is not just to Dane County, but to all 72 counties in the state, and as I said, other areas of surrounding states. And so people have a lot of choices when they make a decision of where to get their care, and there's a lot of great places around the state and the surrounding region to get care. But when your care is complex and it's something like cancer that's, you know, either not responded to upfront treatment or you just run out of options. Some of the world's best experts are here. And that's my job is to communicate that they feel like when they come here they're getting cut cutting-edge care. Because that was the model when I worked at the National Cancer Institute. You know, they they were two things. They uh were not just a home where our tax dollars go and fund research that can't be done anywhere else, but they also had a hospital, the clinical center. And the hospital there took children and adults from not just around the US, but around the world where people threw their hands up and said, I don't know what else to do. But you have something that no one else has, and we want to give it a try. That's the same thing here. We have studies here you only can get here at the Carbone Cancer Center. We have studies that you can only get at a handful of places, and so if we're the closest one to you, it makes sense to come here. And then we have stuff that's open at a lot of hospitals around the country, but only at select hospitals. And so we want to make sure that people understand that when they come here, they're not just signing up, again, to be in a fancy building or around smart people, but that they're getting the best that's available for their cancer.
SPEAKER_01:I really like how you were able to roll that out and just put all the pieces from what you were saying about the providers and the institution itself, the ethos of the institution, and then bringing it all the way to the person that's coming in the door, maybe for the first time, or just having a chance to say, Oh, Carbon Cancer Center, what's that? Right. Um, and so I would just like you to also on top of that, add from your researcher lens, like what is the call to action from researchers in in this puzzle? Because it's the undergirding kind of thing that has helped push our understandings forward, our cures forward. You know, it's the it's the kind of undergirding engine. What is that message from researchers?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a great question. Um, for some people, um, when they hear research or they hear clinical trial, they I don't know. Some people have told me they picture like an animal in a cage and you know, getting all these weird treatments. And that's part of research too. But really what it's all about is um taking an idea and practically making it into either a new test, a new tool uh to learn about, like, for example, your symptoms, uh a new treatment, obviously, or a new program, even. And we are uh very much an incubator of ideas. We don't just have members of the cancer center within the medical school. So it's not just doctors and and scientists, it's all of UW Madison. So we unleash the whole thing. We have members of the center at nine different colleges and schools, the School of Nursing. College of Engineering, the Pharmacy School, the VET School, one of the top, you know, vet schools in the country, and they have a a major companion animal oncology program. So getting back to like you were saying to my research, for example, I study immune cells, and my belief is that the immune system can recognize and fight cancer. And my dream is one day we get rid of chemo and that just the immune system can get rid of it. But that's not going to happen because we all get cancer with an immune system. So clearly it needs help to get there. And some of the ideas that we want to get help it get there are to grow those cells from our own body in the lab and weaponize them so that they have the tools to, when you infuse them back, to fight the cancer. But, you know, we can do that to animals uh in in research labs, but there's animals dying of cancer too. And we have a vet school that takes care of them. So my lab has partnered with the vet school on a study to infuse these natural killer cells that uh dogs have uh with different metastatic cancers. And, you know, right now the therapy doesn't work, but we're learning and iterating on it to make it better. Hopefully we can treat and, you know, hopefully make the quality of life of some of these dogs better. But would be even more exciting is that then what we learn there we can translate into people. And they get cancer sometimes more frequently than we do, like bone cancer. And so if the dogs with bone cancer, if we get it to respond to the treatment, the logical thing in my eyes is to then do it in children. And in fact, we were involved with studies in that in the 90s with a drug that ended up getting approved overseas for bone cancer. Um, and so there's definitely a precedent for doing this. It's like if we have the tools here, we should you should be doing this too.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and that is a very hopeful place to be in um as we're looking forward and being able to continue this conversation. So I'd like to just wrap up there, but I feel like we might be setting the stage for the next opportunity to have you join us.
SPEAKER_00:That would be fantastic. Uh there's just so much exciting things going on that uh be happy to talk further about all the you know new treatments, but also you know, the new uh things we're doing in the community um and trying to improve the health of the state. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there you have it, folks. We are here with Dr. Christian Capatini, acting director of the UW Carbone Cancer Center. My name is Joshua Wright. I'm your host of the Cancer Clear and Simple podcast. Please tell your friends about us. Please listen and tune in next time. And we'll see you on the next episode of Cancer Clear and Simple.
